The Yerba maté industry responds

The other day, I received an email from the VP of Operations of Guayaki Yerba Maté in response to my earlier post about the drink and its links to cancer. Since my post sparked a lot of discussion, I thought I’d share his note. He said:

I’m writing from Guayakí Yerba Mate in response to your article on PLoS today. We would value the opportunity to discuss this topic in more detail and provide additional research and information below. I am available this week or next for a phone call.

The first point to note is that the link between yerba mate and cancer is based on epidemiological studies which are known to be unreliable. This is due in large part to environmental factors, cultural practices and varying medical support systems. Some of the key factors not taken into consideration are water quality, quality of the yerba mate, consumption patterns, processing methods and temperature of water used.

Some studies have linked cancer with the consumption of very hot water and similar links have been found in tea and coffee consumed in very hot water, as you have noted, thank you. Many experts do believe that the potential risk is due to PAH, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.  Human and environmental PAH’s are found virtually everywhere including foods and beverages such as barbecued meats, shellfish, water, coffee and tea. Research suggests that PAH may result from environmental pollution, harvesting and smoke finishing processes.  It’s important to note that organic, air-dried yerba mate is found to contain lower amounts of PAH than green tea in recent testing.

I also attached a recent study published in Comprehensive Reviews in Food Science and Safety. Note page 313 (excerpt also pasted below).

I welcome a conversation on this topic and hope to hear from you.

Thanks for your time,

Richard Bruehl

VP Operations

Guayaki SRP, Inc.

And the excerpt, from Comprehensive Reviews in Food Science and Safety, Volume 9, 2010 Page 313

“…concerns have been raised regarding an association between yerba mate and the occurrence of certain types of cancer, specifically oral, esophageal, lung, bladder, and renal (Heck and de Mejia 2007). However, there is no conclusive evidence that this association is a result of the consumption of yerba mate but rather due to various lifestyle choices including smoking and excessive alcohol consumption. In addition, these cases have primarily been reported in certain areas of South America where large amounts of yerba mate are consumed at very hot and damaging temperatures which could lead to increased absorption of carcinogens found in cigarette smoke or other environmental pollutants (Heck and de Mejia 2007).”

It’s nice to see that Mr. Bruehl did actually read my post. And some of the points he makes are similar to ones I made. For instance, yes: case-control studies do not prove causality, and the studies that have been published about Yerba maté did not control for every factor that might influence outcome, as I mentioned. That said, some of these studies did collect information on consumption patterns (in terms of quantity consumed) and temperature. And many tried to control for tobacco and alcohol consumption, too.

In my opinion, Bruehl’s tactic here is pure manufactured doubt—”we can’t prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it’s the Yerba maté causing the cancer”—which is pretty much exactly what the tobacco, asbestos, and lead industry did when science started to suggest their respective dangers. (For more on industry doubt campaigns, I highly recommend Doubt is Their Product by David Michaels, former Assistant Secretary of Energy.) I know, it’s unfair of me to compare the Yerba maté industry to Big Tobacco, but I’m just trying to make the point that these kinds of arguments surface again and again in industry, and I’m not at all convinced by them.

Mr. Bruehl is, of course, right that PAH’s are found in other foods. But personally I think this is a cause for more concern, not less. The fact that the world is full of dangerous exposures does not make me feel better, nor does it make this particular exposure any less worrying! Plus, considering that Yerba maté is marketed as an “anti-cancer drink,” the fact that there is more evidence suggesting it increases rather than decreases cancer risk is particularly disturbing. (To be fair, Guayaki does not tout Yerba maté as an anti-cancer drink, but their website does have a page dedicated to its antioxidant capacity, and it calls maté “the healthiest” stimulant drink around.)

I will concede Mr. Bruehl’s last point: it may well be true that organically grown Yerba maté is purer and potentially safer. I can’t find evidence to back this up, but logically it would make sense if it’s grown with fewer chemicals. So if I were going to reach for some Yerba maté—and chances I are never will—I’ll be sure it’s the certified organic kind.

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44 Responses to The Yerba maté industry responds

  1. David Kroll says:

    pure manufactured doubt

    Say no more.

    Great job on both posts, Melinda – I had not known this about Yerba maté before.

  2. Khalil A. says:

    Mr. Bruehl is, of course, right that PAH’s are found in other foods. But personally I think this is a cause for more concern, not less. The fact that the world is full of dangerous exposures does not make me feel better, nor does it make this particular exposure any less worrying!

    I agree that it’s more of a concern. However, Bruehl is speaking about his company’s drink here and I don’t think PAH should be taken into the equation. It’s present everywhere so it’s not a problem intrinsically linked to Yerba mate alone.

  3. Thanks, David, for your kind words. A. Khalil, I appreciate your comment and I do see your point. However, I have to disagree: just because PAH’s aren’t only in Yerba maté does not, in my opinion, get the drink off the hook. Plus, exposure from Yerba maté is potentially much higher. As I mentioned in my first post, Yerba maté contains one particular PAH called benzo[a]pyrene (BaP), which is often used by researchers as a marker for PAH presence in general. The leaves have been shown to contain from 536 to 2,906 nanograms per gram (ng/g) of BaP. By comparison, in 2001, National Cancer Institute researchers analyzed various food items eaten by 228 subjects in Washington, DC and found grilled / barbequed well-done steaks had the highest concentration of BaP, but even these only a maximum of about 4 ng/g of BaP—a concentration that is up to 725 times lower than that found in Yerba maté leaves. BaP concentrations were found to be far lower in other foods. So clearly, PAH exposure from Yerba maté is relatively high, especially for people who drink it frequently.

    Citation for the 2001 study:
    Kazerouni, N. (2001). Analysis of 200 food items for benzo[a]pyrene and estimation of its intake in an epidemiologic study. Food and Chemical Toxicology, 39 (5), 423-436 DOI: 10.1016/S0278-6915(00)00158-7

  4. Vero says:

    No mystery here: Excess never has been, never was, and never will be good! whether cigarettes, alcohol, tea, coffee, sugar, meat, sport or whatever!

    Life is an equilibrium: a balance between life and death drives. Isn’t this common sense?!

    What is it with human beings always trying to evaporate their guilt (death drive) by using science as an excuse!


  5. Khalil A. says:

    Ah, silly me. I wasn’t aware of that Yerba mate has a relatively high level of PAH (to be more precise BaP). Thanks for the precisions :)

  6. No problem! Your comment inspired me to look for more information on the relative PAH levels. I, too, was surprised to find they are so high.

  7. gabriel says:

    Have you ever drunk mate?. Cancer is not the only thing to say about yerba mate, has a lot of properties and beneficial effects. I agree that the case studies are not related to the causes of cancer, i think there are cultural components in your position on yerba mate.

    Anyway, its a very good drink!, hope you drink it some day 😉

  8. Michael says:

    I think you should probably reread this statement:

    “It’s important to note that organic, air-dried yerba mate is found to contain lower amounts of PAH than green tea in recent testing”

    Honestly, I’m surprised that you would have the bad sense to actually post his response if you were just going to cut back through to your derogatory view-point.

    PAH’s are everywhere, and unless you write a lengthy blog about every other ingested substance that contains PAH’s in similar concentrations as air-dried organic mate in a slanderous light, I think your argument is rather unfounded and misdirected.

    And sorry, but you DID compare the mate industry to the tobacco, asbestos and lead industry. Shame on you. Shame on you.

  9. andrew says:

    Good conversation. I see the cultural implications as the headline. Mate is traditionally drank pretty much all day at scalding temperatures, along with smoking of tobacco and alcohol consumption. From what i know all of these affect the body in a bad way. There is not nearly enough evidence anywhere to say that it is a dangerous drink by itself. Hell if you ask me breathing oxygen will kill y0u.

  10. Gideon says:

    I think more research needs to be done. I makes sense that smoked mate, and the temp it is drank AND brewed at are important factors. Green tea has been show to have different properties based on what temp and duration it is brewed at as well. I wish more of these studies looked at, not the leaf, but what is in the brew- as than is what we consume.

    So in that way, I do feel safe at this time saying smoked mate, especially drank at higher temps, plays a role in higher rates of cancer. I think the jury is still out though on the organic, non smoked varieties, drank in a more NA style (aka brewed once, drank at lower temps, and lesser amounts on average).

    The synergistic effect of smoking and drinking combined with mate does not surprise me. Drinking alcohol and smoking together at the same time greatly increases you risk of cancer.

    It is also interesting to note that with tea, drinking it with dairy reduces some of the chemicals that are thought to play some role in throat cancers. I would also like to eventually see a study on mate to see if the casein frome dairy has similar effects.

    Again, in the end I think it is important to separate smoked mate from non smoked since smoking inherently increases the carcinogenic effect and that is well documented- where as non smoked is not.

  11. Jonny says:

    I was doing some unrelated research when I came upon some information which sparked an idea in my head. This page here has some interesting information related to polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons and their interaction with caffeine:

    [quote]smokers need to take in three to four times more caffeine than non-smokers to get the same effect, owing to the fact that by products of smoking increases enzymes in the liver which break-down caffeine.[/quote]

    [quote]Byproducts of tobacco smoking, particularly the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, are metabolic inducers.[/quote]

    [quote]The metabolic inductive effects are not specific to tobacco smoking; they can also be expected from marijuana smoking.[/quote]

    Yerba mate as it is predominantly consumed, is a smoked product as most people know. I wonder just how much of the ‘yerba mate doesn’t affect me like coffee’ is owing to the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons from the smoking process. I have read some studies which equate drinking yerba mate in quantities consistent with an average intake (based upon south american consumption habits) to be equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes a day in terms of the amount of intake of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.

    Some things I would question however and do so also in relation to the proposed cancer questions is what sort of difference is involved in ingestion of the pca’s via oral route vs inhalation. I can’t find the page any longer but I had read that the stomach lining is such that it is constantly replacing itself, implying that it’s ability to handle toxic substances would be more able than the lungs which are in contrast far more fragile structures.

  12. Chinchilla Dollop says:

    I’m a cautious mate fan who has been trying to wean himself of the drink ever since encountering the study you’ve cited a year or two ago. At that time, I had to dig through search results to find that study. Now your article comes up immediately and, importantly, the link to the study within it.

    Despite loving mate, I’d been avoiding it ever since. Last week, loose tea from Yerbamaki was on sale at Whole Foods and I bought San Mateo Air-Dried Organic, hoping the non-roasting process might have helped with the level of PAH.

    I used it today for the first time and got that amazing effect of clarity and optimism that makes mate a kind of antidepressant for me. But that made me suspicious, because you get that effect most noticeably when the mate is very strong. I’d only had two cups.

    I’d love to con myself that I’d bought the least carcinogenic mate available, but if critics of the first study complain about the controls, then why is anyone citing the mate article offered by the rep, which seems to contain no specific information to back up the idea that my backsliding is without consequence because the mate I’ve bought is organic and air-dried (and only partly so at that, according to the gentleman with esophageal cancer who posted above).

    My girlfriend suffers from clinical depression, and if this stuff were really safe, I’d have bought her a pound of the air-dried already. But the evidence so far suggests otherwise.

    We’re at the stage at which hired industry experts seem to be muddying the most alarming research with supposedly contradictory studies. As Ms. Moyer has said, this is what always happens.

    I want to know what difference, if any, the air-drying process actually makes in terms of risk, and I want to see credible researchers and specific controls in the study that prove this claim instead of reps’ elevating it to the level of a respectable anecdote. If we couldn’t trust Yerbamaki to give us real data on their traditional mate, then we can’t trust them to make or even cite vague claims about air-dried mate. And people should remember that the FDA has been altering and eroding the meaning of Certified Organic for a very long time, and that mate which passes for organic in San Mateo has likely been subjected to even less exacting standards than ours.

    If a credible and specific study does verify the claim about air-dried mate, I’ll be thrilled. Until then, I’ll try to make this my last mate purchase and drink it only in moderation and without deluding myself as to the chemistry.

  13. Chinchilla Dollop says:

    One last thing: In the above comment, I wrote [i]Yerbamaki[/i] to allude to the makers of San Mateo Air-Dried Yerba Mate but meant the company [i]Guayaki[/i]. All questions and comments about Yerbamaki actually address the products and claims of Guayaki.

  14. Shari says:

    all I know is that since I’ve started drinking yerba mate, my health and depression has done a 180. the tribe said a God came down and told them it was a health and longevity tonic…and that’s good enough for me. the “research” changes all the time. One year eggs are bad for you, another year they’re great. Dairy fat is evil, now it’s not. Whatever. Go with your own instincts and body.

  15. Chinchilla Dollop says:

    What is it about supposedly healthy imports and astroturfing every relevant discussion with crap? Obviously, people who try yerba mate in the States and the UK aren’t looking for a new destructive habit. They don’t want to struggle with yet another carcinogenic habit. The whole reason they started drinking yerba mate in the first place is because they wanted a healthier and more digestible alternative to coffee. And it doesn’t make any industry person masquerading as a consumer look better to post on a science and nutrition blog and put “science” in air quotes. Most of us are here because we respect science. It’s the food industries that perpetrate hoaxes, dodge studies and make false claims that arouse our suspicion. I trust the research of the woman who writes this blog a hell of a lot more than I do astroturfed soundbytes from employees of Guayaki posing as casual readers.

  16. clarissa mora says:

    gauchos have been drinking this for ages and are very healthy people. if you compare the cancer levels in where mate is drunk to the U.S.A , New Zealand and some european countries, you will see that actually numbers are not high. Anyway, i will not stop eating bbq, drinking mate, drinking wine and sunbathing because if one is to worry about cancer so much, then just dont live because cancer is inside of all of us already. stress is the main accelerator of it.

  17. Daryl says:

    The claims state that yerba mate is linked to increase in cancer, specifically oral, esophageal, lung, bladder, and renal. If this were true, wouldn’t there be high rates of these types of cancer on South America? If you look at this global map, showing statistics for global cancer rates, you will see that South American ranks far below the US and Europe and lung cancer is only listed at 8%. There are no other statistics to show about any of these other forms of cancers in South America are at increased rates. If you look at the other countries, the lung cancer rates are much higher. Here’s a link to the map –

    My conclusion… yerba mate is safe! I drink it and I feel calm, focused, and healthy. I no longer get the jitters and heart palputations that put me in the hospital from coffee. That being said, I will drink yerba mate until I die… no pun intended :)

  18. Mark says:

    If you look into how yerba mate is processed traditionally I think you’ll find that it is exposed to smoke from the wood fired drying processes in many (if not most) cases. Seems to me that could explain the PAH levels. It would also make sense to me if air dried yerba mate was found to have lower PAH levels as Mr. Bruehl suggests.
    Why not call Mr. Bruehl up and see what data he has? It might also be helpful to have a quick look around the web and see what he and his company are all about as well. I really don’t get the impression that he is trying to cover anything up by manufacturing doubt. Just my opinion.

  19. Roberto Acosta says:

    I actually went through the cited article, and it doesn’t make any such claims comparing carcinogen levels in yerba mate vs. green tea, that bit appears to be falsified. This detracts from the validity of the rest of the poster’s claims I think.

    Here is the link to the article, please give it a browse

  20. Steven says:

    I just found this page on the Guayaki site regarding PAH’s and the industry and what they are doing, it’s quite informative, and props to them for doing the work for decades! :

  21. joyce says:

    I totally disagree with your emphasis on PAH’s. As stated, PHA’s are found in coffee, tea, meats, etc. To single out mate’ is unfair, and you are doing the same thing you accuse the mate’ industry of doing…using doubt as a factor.

    I have nothing to do with the industry but have drank and will continue to drink mate’ for years to come. Recent studies have shown improvement in blood lipids, diabetes and just this year a study was done citing LESS cancer. I believe it was ovarian cancer; don’t have the study in front of me. A great article about mate’ is on Wikipedia, and I agree that it is the temperature of the water that is a factor in mouth cancer. Epidemiological studies are useless, and that is what the current “cancer scare” study was based on.

  22. jayro says:

    My wife works at whole foods and just came home tonight with the “bad news” that i’ve been basically “smoking a pack of cigaretes” every day for the past year!! 7 years ago i bought my first gourd and with a carpenter friend and sipped mate on the jobsite for about 6 months until i worked my way back in to coffee. A year ago while on a cleanse i dusted off the old gourd and have been loving it ever since –the clarity, the level, bright energy without the ups and downs. I prefer the flavour of guayaki but discovered a Latino grocer in vancouver that sold other traditional brands for a fraction of the cost and so switched. I respect the science behind the study but the finding seems unbelievably extreme. What about the PAH levels in green leaves before the processing/drying? Is the plant itself totally toxic or is it the mass production farming practices with pesticides? And what about the organic, air dried variety, is there third party data out there on guayaki’s PAH levels?
    i’m still in shock and hoping to be able to continue enjoying mate properly — with gourd, bombilla, and thermos of “warm” water!

  23. It’s fairly clear to anyone reading a science blog regularly that “manufactured doubt” not only refers to the initial response but to the various responses to the article by Guayaki reps posing as casual readers. You don’t get the same exact arguments from *different posters* even when they represent the same position, nor does the structure of the text always become anecdotal in the same way and equivocal in the same sense.

    No one who reads casually will be fooled into thinking any of these pro-mate, anti-science responses came from anyone but the commercial mate industry. No one believes these posts which question the blog writer’s integrity (with vague references to data which call none of Ms. Moyer’s points into question), claim that science = guilt (one of the primary late strategies of the tobacco industry, BTW), or argue that everything is harmful in excess. The post was about mate causing cancer, not the benefits of a well-rounded diet.

    Instead of focusing on spewing disinformation, Mr. Bruehl, and instead of either writing under pseudonyms or getting an employee to do it, why don’t you devote research into investigating ways to process or develop either a non-carcinogenic version of yerba mate or non-carcinogenic supplements that could be made from it? No one who reads Body Politic is convinced by you for one second. Rather, the desperation shown by your manufacture of phony posts in support of your company makes you appear unethical and unsympathetic, and offer us all another reason to avoid drinking mate in the future.

  24. Garry says:

    I drink yerba mate and smoke organic pipe tobacco daily and am 64 years old and in perfect health. I believe everything is good for you in moderation. I love tobacco and mate and have no intentions to give up either.

  25. MyMy says:


    so much anger here… a couple of things that stand out to me-

    Traditional setting where people drink loads of mate don’t show an increase of cancer. Period.
    Studies are extremely beneficial but can be faulty– the FDA approves drugs that harm and kill thousands of people- but cite studies that say these drugs are safe.
    Let’s not let our common sense be obliterated by frustration of being lied to by food industry etc.. how about pro science and pro common sense? Dogmas come in many forms. There is corruption everywhere so we need to check our facts and especially the motives of those doing the ‘science.’ Unfortunately
    science studies refuse to take into account all of the things we learned almost a hundred years ago about quantum physics- the observer effect etc. Our intentions ACTUALLY change the outcome of reality on a fundamental level. Placebo and nocebo are widely acknowledged to have merit- If you think something is giving you cancer- it is much more likely to do so!
    Letting anger get in the way makes people look (imo) childish. What if you work for the coffee industry? Tone says a lot. Why resort to attacks and unproven accusations? Why not return this man’s call and discuss the matter further???
    Many plants have combinations of beneficial and detrimental compounds, yet cultures have evolved with these plants over long periods of time. Through experience, trial and error, and intuition- yes intuition these cultures have evolved together with the plants and found ways of maintaining healthy relationships with these plants that have OBVIOUSLY DESIRABLE effects.
    Intuition by what would be called ‘left brained’ scientists has lead to some of the MAJOR breakthroughs in science.
    We are one of the sickest- and most ‘medicated’ society in known history. This country spends more on studies and ‘health care’ than any other… where does it get us? I personally lost my mother to cancer and know people who have cured their cancer with diet/lifestyle change.
    Please save your anger for the people that are directly trying to bankrupt/harm/kill you and your families and lets keep the lines of communication flowing…

    Peace and Gratitude

  26. Really, someone outside the Mate industry? says:

    Ummm sure. I’ll go to court with you. If you are saying that I am a “shill for Guayaki and the yerba mate industry”.. yeah, I will absolutely take that bet. Please let me know how you would like to handle this bet and how to get in contact. If this bet is serious and you Actually want to meet in person to go to court and prove that I do not work for the Yerba Mate industry, I think your a little off and not serious, but I will absolutely do it. Again, post how you would like to get in contact. Thanks.

  27. Officer Dan says:

    “No one who reads casually will be fooled into thinking any of these pro-mate, anti-science responses came from anyone but the commercial mate industry. ”

    Paranoia ??

    This is my first post here and on this subject and I have no link to the Yerba-Mate industry.. I found my way here doing research on smoked meats. I find the credibility of some of these so called scientific studies to be questionable at best.

    Don’t miss understand me I’m very much interested in science “real science” The problem I have with food industry sciences in the United States is that they’re rarely if ever impartial studies..

    More often then not they are the result of unethical competitive business practices by large corporate entities as these studies are almost always exclusively funded by corporations through lobby and front groups of competing products, and then unethically portrayed to the consumer as legitimate unbiased scientific studies.

    That in a nut shell is why so many food related scientific studies seem to contradict each other. This is the end result of unethical scientists selling their souls to corporate American by structuring studies to give the buyer the results they are looking for. We’ve all seen it.. In one study pork is safer then red meat and a few years later the beef industry fights back with their own studies countering the pork industries studies.

    All one has to do is review which products were chosen for the study and which were omitted and what information was left out.. For example I noticed that none of the studies related to cholesterol were mentioned in this study of this blog. It’s a shame that unethical corporate marketing has destroyed any shred of credibility of theses types of studies.

    As a retired criminal investigator the first thing that goes through my mind when I read a study that makes claims which are detrimental to a product especially a product that competes with US interests is who benefits from that study the most..

    Well in this case it’s the US coffee industry.. Who I’d venture a bet is behind the funding for this an other questionably negative Yerba-Mate studies. This isn’t real science it’s nothing more then a form of negative advertising posing as legitimate science .

    The problem with this study which makes me question it’s legitimacy is the simple fact that the empirical data contradicts the studies hypothesis.

    If you look at the world wide cancer statistics you immediately realize the study and the actual data contradict each other. There is no denying the fact that actual cancer rates don’t support the studies hypothesis. If anything the actual incidents of cancer contradict the studies risk assessment. Thats why these studies conveniently ignore these particular statistics.. Like I said it’s more what they leave out of their studies then what they include. Because you and I both know that if the cancer statistics actually supported their claims they would have included them in there studies.

    For example the average rate of the cancers listed in this study are much lower per capita in countries that consume Yerba-Mate..

    Of the cancers listed in these study the US has an average rate of incident of 33+ per 100,000 while countries which consume Yerba-Mate in high quantities have an average rate of indecent of only 12.8 per 100,000..

  28. Officer Dan says:

    “Jaysee, If you keep sipping that beverage your going to cut years off your life. Sipping Yerba is effectively sipping on a cigarette.”

    Interestingly enough cancer statistics don’t back up your claim as the US has roughly a 3x higher average incidence of the cancers listed then the countries who consume Yerba-Mate in quantity.

  29. Yerba Mate says:

    Mate tea ( Yerba mate) may well yet prove to prevent and reverse cancer via its protective effects against DNA damage and its ability to enhance DNA repair activity (

    Its protective and ameliorative effects on insulin resistance, diabetes, dislipidaemia,…. – all conditions favouring carcinogenesis – are further indicators that this herb has some powerful anti-cancer potential

    Don’t just dismiss what you know little about, please.

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  32. Yerba is bad says:

    I have drinked yerba for years unfortunately. I have recently been diagnosed with colon cancer after noticing my feces were unusually colored and heavy. I think more studies have to be done before everyone starts drinking this beverage.

  33. Yerba is good says:

    That wasnt from Yerba, buttplugging does that same thing. When you stretch your anus out by use of plugs, feces builds up and causes colon cancer. Plugging is dangerous in itself so please use cation. If your plugging to stretch for a good rearend pounding, there are better devices often used in the industry. be safe.

  34. Yerba is good says:

    That is SO wrong. You are spreading inaccurate information. It’s protective? Yerba? Do you even know what yerba is? Anything you put in a pipe to smoke is Definately NOT good for you.

  35. Maybe some truth says:

    Step #1.Place uncut Yerba leaves directly to your testicles for a minimum of 24 hours.

    Step #2. Ejaculate on the body of a significant other.

    Step #3. Come back and thank me.

    The results are immeasureable by words.

  36. I doubt you says:

    Helo ms. moyer,

    I was writting you to ask if you are a girl. Your picture looks kinda in the middle. I want to interview woman writers and wanted to know if you would be willing to help me. I am in the third grade and like sciences. please email me if you are a girl, only like a real girl. i dont think a girl with male parts is still ok. you are pretty if you are a guy. thanks.

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  38. Huh? says:

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  39. what the?? says:

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