Bath salts (MDPV and mephedrone) in The New York Times

I wrote in February about a type of legal high product known as “bath salts.” Unlike synthetic marijuana “incense” or “potpourri” products, the active compound in bath salts is a type of stimulant called MDPV (methylenedioxypyrovalerone).

On the frontpage of today’s Sunday edition of The New York Times, Abby Goodnough and Katie Zezmia have an article highlighting the medical issues surrounding bath salt products. Of greatest concern to law enforcement and medical personnel is that some users behave in a violent manner that is unresponsive to typical sedatives or even being Tasered.

I’ve reposted below my essay on bath salts as their active compound was being legislated to illegal status in the state of North Carolina. Therein I’ve provided some background on MDPV.

For more information on another prominent compound in bath salts (and “plant food” legal highs), mephedrone or 4-MMC, please see this post from my neuropharmacology colleague DrugMonkey.

Update 20 July: Maggie Koerth-Baker at BoingBoing was kind enough to link to us and DrugMonkey on this topic so we appreciate you reading if you came by via Maggie’s tip (Thanks, Maggie!).

In response, DrugMonkey did a very nice job of following up to frame this whole discussion and raise the point that we should not conflate MDPV and mephedrone/4-MMC because their effects are very different despite similar chemical structures. Moreover, he pointed out a major flaw in the NYT article, namely the authors’ mistaken statement about these products being similar to synthetic marijuana.

For this information, you should read DrugMonkey’s post, “News on substituted cathinone stimulants, aka “bath salts.”


The following post appeared originally on 19 February 2011, under the title, “NC legislators aim to clean up “bath salt” omission,” at my Terra Sigillata blog on the CENtral Science network.

3,4-methylenedioxypyrovalerone (MDPV) - the most common compound found in "bath salts"

Earlier this week, I wrote about the comprehensive chemistry text in two North Carolina state bills – H12/S9 and H13/S7 – to criminalize distribution, sales, and possession of compounds present in a variety of legal-high, designer drug products.

One bill specifically addressed compounds present in synthetic marijuana compounds whose extensive list included those eponymous JWH compounds synthesized in the laboratory of Clemson University Professor Emeritus, John W. Huffman (featured here). The other bill addressed mephedrone (4-methylmethcathinone; 4-MMC) and other structural analogs of this amphetamine and cathinone derivative.

However, I noted my surprise at the time at the omission of a compound more commonly associated with so-called bath salt products: MDPV, or methylenedioxypyrovalerone. My neuroscience blogging colleague DrugMonkey also remarked to me of his surprise since most other states deal with MDPV in the same legislation with mephedrone/4-MMC because of their structural similarity.

But on Thursday I was tipped off by WRAL-TV Capitol News Bureau Director, Laura Leslie, that a separate bill, Senate Bill 77 (S77), was just filed by State Senator Stan Bingham (R, NC-33) that specifically proposes to criminalize MDPV. Unlike the earlier bills, this one does not appear to currently have a House counterpart so I’m unclear as to how this will be dealt with in the other body. The bill now goes to judiciary committee.

The “bath salt” phenomenon began to grab US media attention in late 2010 as state poison control centers began to receive reports of emergency room visits by people using legal high products that were not synthetic marijuana. According to Mark Ryan, Louisiana Poison Control Center Director, these products are sold under such names as Cloud 9, Ivory Wave, Ocean, Charge Plus, White Lightning, Scarface, Hurricane Charlie, Red Dove and White Dove.

These currently skirt drug laws by claiming “not for human consumption” or as bath salts, plant food, or insect repellent. As with synthetic marijuana products, an advantage of these drugs is that they can’t be detected by the most common urinary drug screens such as the SAMHSA 5 (Quest Diagnostics example here). These products providing those on probation or otherwise subject to mandatory drug testing with a psychoactive alternative to amphetamines or Ecstasy.

Hey, kids! No. Wrong. This is not what everyone is talking about.

TIME Healthland writer, Maia Szalavitz, remarked to me recently of her concern about kids hearing stories about “bath salts” and then trying to smoke Mom’s Calgon. Not a good idea. Trying to do so may indeed, “take me away.”

From a neuropharmacology perspective, even less data are available on MDPV than for mephedrone. MDPV is the 3,4-methylenedioxy derivative of pyrovalerone, a compound first synthesized by Heffe in 1964 and investigated in the 1970s in Europe as an amphetamine-like agent for chronic fatigue. Most recently, investigators from the Massachusetts-based company, Organix, tested a series of pyrovalerone analogs for selective inhibition of dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake transporters, DAT and NET, relative to the serotonin reuptake transporter, in studies toward identifying a treatment for cocaine addiction (J Med Chem 2006, 49, 1420-1432).

The strategy of this search was to identify compounds that are potent at binding DAT (and displacing cocaine) but that cause less actual inhibition of dopamine reuptake. This ratio of the IC50 for inhibition of dopamine reuptake divided by the Ki for binding the DAT is called the discrimination ratio (DR). (For non-pharmacologists, IC50 is the concentration that inhibits a maximal response of a model compound by 50%; the Ki is a measure solely of binding, not function, and indicates the concentration that inhibits maximum binding of a model compound by 50%.)

What’s the significance of this discrimination ratio? Deutsch and Schweri proposed that a DR of 10 or greater is required for functional cocaine antagonism without having the same stimulant effect (J Med Chem 1999, 42, 882−895). In the Organix J Med Chem paper, none of the pyrovalerone analogs had a DR of greater than 5. These data are suggestive that pyrovalerone and its analogs are unlikely to be treatments for cocaine abuse because they have cocaine-like effects.

However, out of all the compounds synthesized for this study, none were the 3,4-methylenedioxy ring-substituted analog, MDPV. I consulted this week with Bryan Roth, MD, PhD, Professor in the UNC-Chapel Hill Department of Pharmacology and principal investigator of the NIMH Psychoactive Drug Screening Program (PDSP). The NIMH contract allows qualified academic investigators to submit new psychoactive compounds for screening against over 50 neurochemical receptors and transporters (current list here). I tried to search the PDSP Ki database for results without success and Dr. Roth confirmed for us on Thursday that MDPV has not yet been tested in the PDSP. I’d be particularly interested in seeing MDPV tested alongside pyrovalerone to see if its profile differs in the same manner as MDMA vs. methamphetamine.

I continue to be fascinated by designer chemistry and legal highs for two reasons. First, is how clandestine chemists are so agile as to stay ahead of not only the legislation and even the science. Much of what is really known about MDPV comes from self-experimentation from human bioassays as detailed at such sites as Erowid and Bluelight. Second, is that the rush to criminalize these compounds is going to place extensive demands on state criminal investigation laboratories. Simply looking at the North Carolina bills for synthetic marijuana compounds and mephedrone analogs, labs are ultimately going to have to develop LC/MS methods for dozens if not hundreds of compounds. In fact, Carmen Drahl, C&EN Associate Editor and blogger at The Haystack, tweeted to me this week that the text of the NC bills almost read like patents in terms of the compound coverage.

But with state governments tightening their belts, I doubt seriously that the additional resources will be available to fund these increased analytical chemistry demands. And even so, chemists are likely to come up with another series of chemicals that are not covered by these new state laws.

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17 Responses to Bath salts (MDPV and mephedrone) in The New York Times

  1. Problem with these kinds of drugs is that it is very hard to regulate what people are doing in their own houses with products who are for sale in the supermarket. People will always try to find new ways of achieving an ultimate “high”.

  2. Steve says:

    Yep. I’m currently under the spell of the MDPV. I bought 9 whole grams for 30 bucks of “pure” product. I’ve snorted three grams over the span of two months. I’ve enough to last me long enough to either die or wish I was dead. I’m over 35, teach at a major university…not your average paint huffer. Last weekend tried to quit and when it leaves your system you will know it! Wish I listened to the fears and dread about it before I started.
    If you find clumpy white powder in your kids hiding stash, be understanding but firm, and explain. pray they are only snorting and not shooting

  3. Stephen J. says:

    Having gotten some sleep (a rare occurrence when mired in this substance) I thought I would clarify. When smoked, tolerance occurs quicker, and I believe there are harsh byproducts in the vaporization process. The horror stories (goat killing, death by cop) all seem to have been users that smoked. Another major issue is that the margin of error for danger when sold at head shops is thin. If one buys 500 mg of Ivory Wave or whatever, the powder is cut, and probably only ten percent is pure MDPV. This of course varies and who knows what it has been cut with. Give white powder to a drug using teen and he will place a line as if it were cocaine 9 times out of ten. Insuffilate 300mg of pure powder and I imagine one will have a horrible time if not a trip to the er. In my case, vasoconstriction and symptoms of (rashes) are surfacing. I don’t think Ive read about major neuro toxicity, but permanent dopamine receptor damage or heart damage or early Parkinsons do seem likely).

  4. Pingback: News on substituted cathinone stimulants, aka “bath salts” [DrugMonkey] | news on hand

  5. DrugMonkey says:

    Thanks for the kind works and the link David. I updated my post with an illustration of the structures to hopefully make it a little bit clearer that this is the early-mid 80s designer amphetamine story all over again. (It is really unfortunate that old Doonesbury cartoons are so hard to find and link because that old series on the chase to stay ahead of the DEA (“Voila, legal as sea salt!”) was brilliant. )

    What appear to be minor changes in the structures may change the pharmacology in a way that has dramatic effects on subjective character. Major changes may do little to the overall picture other than alter potency. We’re going to have to take them drug by drug. Glomping them all in one basket of “bath salts, aiiiieeee” is not necessarily helpful.

  6. education says:

    You can also take it orally or anally (please for everyones sake don’t take it that way). Steve you got a very good deal (usually sells for 60-70 a gram bout same price as coke). 3 grams over 2 months is not that much compared to recreational users. A couple of small lines is all you need.

    All USERS NOTE: drugs effect everyone differently. Some people will try it anyway despite the warnings. In that case please use these precautions. Don’t take if you are sensitive to caffeine or have heart issues. Only use a small amount at first. You WILL want more and if you have more you will want to use it all. So if you had 9 grams you better find a good hiding spot or that shit’s gonna go quick. Try to avoid smoking cigarettes, only 1 or 2 for regular smokers. I have found smoking heavily while on this shit will speed up ur heart and in my experience had a mini panic attack. Pot will calm you down if you starting getting higher anxiety.

    Always remember to research a drug as much as possible before choosing to use it and be safe. Bath salts can be lots of fun when used properly but also very dangerous. There is no long term research on the effects of this drug which means it can be unpredictable.

    NOTE I am not a doctor this information was gathered through personal experience and research.

  7. Jeremy says:

    that legalsalts.com website took my money June 1st and never sent my product and told me July 5 my refund will be processed. I have been ripped. Buyer beware…

  8. Pingback: Pure Inside Out – Detox Bath: Everyday Body Detox | HealthAndFitnessCure.com

  9. kiki says:

    what’s it.
    H12/S9 and H13/S7 – to criminalize distribution

  10. Well, I have a supplier overseas that regularly ships me dirt cheap amphetamines. I won’t use any names in everything i’m about to tell you guys about one of my HORRIBLE experiences, but, long as things remain anonymous, then I don’t mind sharing.

    I receive from a professional supplier that gets whatever I need from a professional chemist that i’m assuming has a lab at home, but I know works as a chemist for a major pharmaceutical company. Anyways, he’s making sure he gets me large amounts of amphets every week due to me having to fight Dr.’s due to the DEA constantly jumping down their throats. I never wanted to break any laws in my life, and still don’t, but… when you’re not an addict, and you TRULY need your adhd medicine, but can’t get it because it’s either $600.00/month supply, or the DEA has put the fear of God into your doctor so bad, that they all sudden decide they’re gonna cut you off for no reason, bcause DEA threatens to take everything they own.

    I have legitimate documented medical conditions, that have been documented over the last 12 years… so it’s not like i’m just some bum off the street doctor shopping, but, because i’m prescribed narcotics, I get treated like a junkie regardless. I get treated wonderfully whenever I go to a new doctor’s office. The doctor’s are so friends when I go back, then, they ask me the one question that changes EVERYTHING! “Mr. so and so, what medications are you currently taking?”, and when I tell them methadone (taken for chronic pain due to multiple back surgeries), and adderall (taken for years for adhd), they go from smiling and being super friendly, to instantly treating me like a junkie without even looking at my past med records to look at WHY i’m taking those medicines. What’s even funnier, is…. I tell the doc’s sometimes when I go in… i’m not here for meds, I just need a physical, or a check up, but… they still go from treating me nice, to once asking what meds I take, to instantly treating me like dog crap, like a junkie, and like i’m the scum of the earth.

    And the DEA wonder’s why half the country’s on drugs or breaking the law! THEY THEMSELVES ARE PUSHING US TO! They’re leaving us with just about no other options, and the media, because of people like Anna Nicole Smith, they’ve ruined the lives of multiple chronic pain patients who take methadone. Methadone get’s a bad reputation, all because of what people choose to hear on TV, and believe, instead of listening to what the people with medical degrees tell them about the drugs. Now… how can a reporter know more about a narcotic, or how can a few cops or DEA know more about a particular narcotic, than a doctor? Did anyone in the DEA, or any reporter or cop ever graduate medical school? What qualifies them medically to tell the doc’s what to do? They do it to fill the jails. Drug Prohibition is actually a form of population control. Keep a large portion of the population hooked on prescription drugs, painkillers, and benzo’s, then when you pull them over and find a bottle of prescription drugs in the vehicle even if they just picked them up at the drug store, and haven’t even opened the bag, they then arrest said person with medical conditions for driving under the influence, even if they haven’t taken the meds and driven, and even if the person isn’t staggering… and they lock them up in jail. The prisons now days are privatized, and believe it or not, are mostly owned by the major pharma companies who make the prescription drugs… See it’s a revolving door. Get them physically dependent to prescription narcotics, find a way to arrest them, and not only to the big pharma companies get paid for the sales of the meds, but, they also receive about $50,000/year of taxpayer money per inmate because they also own a majority of the nations prisons.

    Is it not a bit odd, that… we have like 10% of the worlds population, but, we have 90% of the world’s INCARCERATED POPULATION!!!! Why is it, that… we have 100 times more people locked up in jail for non violent crimes, that involve drugs, which under our countries constitution and our founders, shouldn’t be illegal anyways, because it’s our freedom what we choose to put into our bodies. And if it’s wrong, we’re the one’s who have to answer to God. We’re endowed by certain unalienable rights, like free will for example. And if you don’t believe in a christian God, that’s fine, I do, but it doesn’t have to be Christian…. our constitution says endowed by your creator. And a creator could be however you want to interpret it depending on your own religion which is also your freedom.

    The government wants to keep a certain percentage of the majority of the population hooked on narcotics, and keep them circulating through the prison systems. That’s why they’re so adamant about fighting a miserably failing war on drugs. Because, they have an agenda to control every US citizen that lives in this country.

    Think about it… if you end up having 60-70% of the USA’s population hooked on some kind of addictive substance, even if it’s alcohol, or tobacco, and those people are then physically dependent on those substances, notice I said physically dependent also, and not addicted, because, there’s a big mix up in our country at the moment, where most people criticize people like me who’ve never taken a narcotic to get high, but have taken so long for a chronic issue, that our body is dependent in the same way an addicts is… we just don’t crave more and more of the drug or take it for a “buzz”. But… picture this, and you’ll see how it’s population control. Now, no matter if it’s a legal addictive substance or illegal…. if the govt has about 60+% of the population physically dependent on some type of substance, and the govt regulates who gets that substance that that person will have severe withdrawal symptoms if not given the substance… well… the govt can and probably eventually will at some point in time, can at any moment pull the plug and say… if you don’t give up your land we’ll see to it you never get this chemical you’re dependent on ever again… or … we’ll tax it so high that we’ll be sure your economic and financial class of people can’t afford to buy the substance half your family’s dependent on… well if most the US is physically dependent, well those people will do whatever the government tells them to, just so they don’t have to do without that chemical they need to live a normal life. This doesn’t matter if it’s someone who has a chronic medical issue that has an excuse to take the drug, doesn’t matter if we’re talking about addicts, doesn’t matter if we’re referring to alcoholics who’s drug of choice is legal or even tobacco users. By the government regulating any psychoactive substances, they own the USA population.

    Look at it this way… why is it… a woman has the right of choice. If she decides that she wants to have an abortion, and, cause damage and harm to her body to get that baby out, and if the government says, it’s her choice because it’s her body…

    Then why doesn’t the same thing apply to drug users? If a woman has that choice over her body… Then why don’t men have that choice over what they place into their body?

    At one time this country was free guys. 100% FREE! But after the late 1800′s, we slowly started giving up those freedoms to communists and socialists. Socialists like Obama for starters lol. No one wants to see the truth, because most people their entire lives, have been brainwashed by propaganda in school, and all through their lives, that, ALL drugs are bad, and so are the people who choose to use them. Well the government was wise on how to remove your freedoms from the people. They knew drugs were something the american population feared the most, and knew that… The American people would never argue about abolishing something that a large portion of the population wanted done away with anyways. They used fear just as they always do, to scare the american population. Anytime they hop on TV and use a fear tactic, you lose one more of your personal freedoms and liberties.

    All this began in the late 1800′s with the congress, and presidents, and senate, etc., who started drafting bills to finally rid the country of drugs for good. They knew… that if they started there, they could slowly take away all your freedoms one at a time, to the point that we eventually would all be slaves to the government, and upper class. Do your homework, and I don’t mean by watching government ran media, like all the alphabet networks. During the late 1800′s before the communists started to ruin our once wonderful country, the entire US country UNDERSTOOD freedom then, they cherished their rights and liberties, and that’s why during the late 1800′s, you could order heroin in a small vial that would come in a wooden kit with two syringes included, all from the SEARS CATALOG!!! Well people then knew that drugs was a freedom that each and every citizen chose for theirselves. Drug dependency doesn’t hurt anyone but the addict, and if the addict wants to damage their body, it’s their choice. To completely understand this concept, most of you need to first know the very VERY first rule of economics…. the law of supply and demand. As long as there is a demand for some product (which there’ll always be a demand for drugs), then some moron out there’s going to KILL HIMSELF FINDING A WAY TO PROVIDE A SUPPLY!!!! It’s just common sense. No matter how many laws any government on the planet passes, it won’t stop the people who want to use drugs. If you ban the chemicals to make one drug, well some chemist somewhere will find a way to invent a new designer drug, and so on…. it’s a never ending viscious circle, and the government knows their laws will never work, but… if they de criminalize drug possessions, well then they LOSE THEIR POPULATION CONTROL OVER THE PEOPLE!!! If you sit, look at the TRUTH, do your homework, and you think long and hard about it, you’ll see it staring you right in the face!

    Now… far as my supplier of amphetamines…. he recently sent me some new samples of pure MDPV that he wanted me to try.

    Well I let a couple friends of mine try it, and they said, man you were right!!! This crap is about 10-100x more potent than amphetamines!!! They said it was WONDERFUL! I had weighed out one gram of Methylenedioxypyrovalerone, into capsules containing around 50mg in each. Which is more than one dosage. If any of you actually DO find PURE MDPV, then it’ll take forever just to go through one gram. Because an average dose administered P.O., is around 20mg give or take 5mg. And if snorted about 10mg-15mg, and if anyone smokes it on foil or in a pipe, an average safe dosage is about 5-10mg. Well, this is where I messed up and had my little NIGHTMARE! Since my friends told me how great they thought it was, I figured i’d give it a go. I decided I was going to try to smoke some. So I got my little strip of foil, and… I opened up one of the clear capsules that I place each 50mg supply into… which gives my buyers about 4-5 doses per capsule they buy…. and I WARN THEM ALL IN ADVANCE!!! I TELL THEM!!! This stuff is more potent than any meth ever made… do NOT do all of what’s in this capsule at one time, or YOU WILL OVERDOSE! I WARN EVERYONE! Which is ironic, and, someone should be kicking me in my butt for what I ended up doing….

    Anyways, I dumped out the 50mg from the capsules onto my strip of foil I was going to smoke it off of, and, well I smoked about 5-10mg in one hit, and, I waited and waited and waited, and 5-10 min went by and felt nothing. So I figured, maybe when I hit it, maybe I didn’t inhale properly because I did see a lot of smoke go off to the sides, or maybe… well…, maybe I didn’t smoke enough? So after already having smoked about 1/4 of the 50mg capsules containing pure MDPV, I then decided since I didn’t feel a thing, (because usually when you smoke a stimulant, you feel the effects IMMEDIATELY!!! That’s what threw me off, and tricked me and got me in a hell of a mess!), so I started to get my lighter out, and my foil, and I started to smoke another 1/4 of what was inside the capsule…. Well after smoking it… same thing…. I waited a while, had a cigarette, and still nothing… which I thought was odd, because my friends had told me they felt it right away… so… back to the foil again, and this time I smoke another 1/4 of what was in there, which now comes out to 3/4 of 50mg! Which is a CRAPLOAD of a dose of MDPV if you’re smoking it! It’s a wonder i’m still alive! Anyways, after smoking that… nothing, aftger waiting over 10 min… so … same procedure, and man I regret all this… BACK TO THE FOIL AGAIN! Now i’m on the last 1/4 of the 50mg MDPV, and I didn’t smoke it all… I prob left 5mg – 10mg still on the foil, and I didn’t feel anything so I just put the foil down on the ground, and turned around and walked out the garage towards the front door. Soon as my foot hit the patio, after stepping out the garage door on my way to the front door of the house, it hit me like a freakin’ JACKHAMMER! NEVER AGAIN! My heart felt like I was having a VERY VERY VERY BAD HEART ATTACK! I was panicking so bad, and, my chest was killing me, my heart rate was well over 250 beats per min, i’m sure, if not more, and my GOD I was freakin’ out, because, the way I felt, I’m pretty sure I had overdosed on the MDPV. MDPV is a VERY VERY potent chemical that is after smoking, I’d say about 100x more potent than methamphetamine, crystal meth, or even crack cocaine!!! BY FAR!!!

    If word on the street gets out about the potency and effects of this drug, then meth labs will be old news, and this drug, will take over from 2010-2020, like crack cocaine took over the decade of 1980-1990! This stuff blows crack away easy and meth! Anyone who think crack ruined tons of cities…. well look out for MDPV, because it’s the next crack cocaine, and, laws can’t stop it. If governments honestly wanted to help, they decriminlize, legalize, and, they would invest money into treatment facilities, and drug education programs. Anyways, I have a background in medicine, and I knew what the standard treatment for amphetamine overdose is, and I also googled treatments for MDPV overdoses as well, and seemed to be nearly identical to meth overdoses. Said online that the ER’s typically either administer valium or xanax, or some type of potent benzodiazepine intravenously…. so… I started calling a few connections as quick as I could… told them I had overdosed, and it was a life or death emergency, and I Found a friend that could spare a couple 1 mg xanax, and I know because of certain binders and fillers in the xanax pills that they can be danerous to inject, but, I knew if I didn’t get a tranquilizer of some kind in me asap, that damaging my body from binders from a pill was the least of my worries, and if my heart was to blow up and me die, then, well, side effects from injecting xanax was the last of my concerns. Anyways, I stopped at a connections house in route to get the xanax from my friend, and I grabbed a new syringe off this other friend while in route. (It was brand new and never opened. I take precautions 99% of the time, and research anything that I do thoroughly.) Anyways, I grabbed the needle, and headed straight for the friends house w/ the xanax. Since I was assuming I had little time left before my heart gave out or before I ended up having an acute myocardial infarction, I called this friend, and begged and pleaded w/ him to start crushing up the xanax for me, throw it into a spoon, and add just enough water to cover up the powder. I told me him, please man, my times limited before I end up dead…. so he ended up doing it, and I got there, and finished it up. I didn’t want to take a chance on damaging my veins, heart, or arteries or anything like that, so I decided just to inject the drug IM, which ended up working just fine, and then, I had him give me the 2nd 1mg xanax, and I took it P.O. immediately after I took the IM injection of 1mg xanax. I then had my mother drive me straight to the hospital in case the self treatment of my overdose didn’t work, and I had her sit there until the xanax treatment had fully kicked in and peaked. Well once it had, I ended up being fine, and we left the hospital parking lot, went home, and, well now we’re here :) Was the worst night of my life by far though. I’ll never do any MDPV EVER AGAIN! I hope all you read my story and learn from it. I don’t believe in stopping any adult from doing any drugs if that’s the choice they make, because, that choice is theirs not some beaurecrats, but… I do believe in making an attempt to help educate people in order to warn them to save a life. But i’ll always believe in freedoms to choose what you want to do with your own body, even if that includes altering ones consciousness. What business does the govt have, telling you what you can and can’t do with YOUR body? If it is their business, then guess what? THEY OWN YOUR BODYAND YOURE A SLAVE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF THE USA AND YOURE NO LONGER A FREE CITIZEN!!! REMEMBER THAT!!!

  11. You actually make it appear really easy along with your presentation however I in finding this matter to be actually one thing which I believe I’d by no means understand. It seems too complex and very extensive for me. I’m taking a look ahead for your subsequent post, I?ll attempt to get the hold of it!

  12. Nameless Faceless says:

    Anonymousrathernotgiveoutanyportionofmyname – is there a chance you are willing to speak outside this forum to a 10yr chronic pain patient who’s Dr has also decided to pull all of his patients off their pain meds due to another clinic being busted by the stupid ass DEA. There are REAL people who TRULY NEED these drugs and do not abuse them. I’ve been on the same dose 10 years!

  13. Pingback: Repost: “ | DrugMonkey

  14. It?s really a cool and useful piece of info. I am satisfied that you shared this helpful information with us. Please stay us up to date like this. Thanks for sharing.

  15. Kidx says:

    I see why your doctors were worried: you’re fucking nuts! You just went into a 20-30 page rant on a comment forum. You’re obviously tweaked the fuck out. I have had no problem getting prescribed Adderall and Methedone from my doctor for ADHD and pain. My doctor monitors me to ensure that my blood pressure stays low and tapered down my dose of Methedone while I went to physical therapy for pain management, because you’re not supposed to take Meedone for that long. But if you went in there all spastic and paranoid with your obvious drug-seeking attitude, I wouldn’t prescribe you anything either.

  16. Eric says:

    Man am I glad that I grew up and started a family………dodged this nasty bullet.

  17. anontoo says:

    Dear Steve and anonymous….., Come home to NA. It works.